Strip Clubs / Reality, Separating The Two

[danger-us]

Originally posted by danger-us
It seems that some guys, who perhaps visit way too many stripclubs, start assuming just about every girl they meet is trying to sell herself or push her sexuality.

Originally posted by justlooking
I think that's one of the ways too much participation in commercial sex really hurts guys.

Another way -- possibly it's the same thing or at least related -- is that I think getting in the habit of objectifying women is more detrimental to the habitually objectifying men more than to the women they objectify.

(Caitlin and Wwanderer have sort of convinced me that the objectification of women isn't a necessary part of commercial sex, so maybe this isn't universal.)

Originally posted by danger-us
Sadly, that is true. In everyday life, it's detrimental when one starts seeing women as objects that must be "scammed" or deviously convinced into sleeping with them. (Learned, in part, from the beautifully sick crap we talk about here.)

Hopefully not too many fall into this rut, but I'm convinced the numbers are quite high.

Originally posted by Harlot
This is probably a topic that deserves its own thread. I've believe it or not never even given it much thought, but you're absolutely right - I can see how this is a huge problem.

We have our game plan for strippers. Then we see the girl next door, or some other girl you'd like to date, and your head is all f*cked up. You're thinking about how to get the most mileage, how to "scam" her into dating you, when deep down you may really want a meaningful relationship. Yet you can't help follow some instincts learned from too many trips to a strip club.

This can be a huge problem. I've seen it in myself at times. I jump up and down to try and shake the demons out!

Look at the road map we set for ourselves when we get too involved in a world that is not real.

 

[Rust]

I think this is a great discussion, but its in the wrong place. This is much more of a problem with providers than it is with strip clubs. At least in a strip club one has to converse with the girl to establish a comfort level, whether it is for money or not, to get extras. A guy can go to a provider, hand her the money, and not say a word, and get what he wants.

 

[Rust]

double posted

 

[danger-us]

Actually, I believe the problem exists in both areas but they are different.

With providers, you know what you are getting, and for the most part you get it. Not as many hoops to jump through. (But yes, I do agree there is a HUGE problem as it relates to providers.)

With strippers, you learn this whole game to get what you want. When it translates into your "real world" and you treat women in the same manner; that's a problem that is somewhat different from the provider scenerio.

 

[BigMadM]

Once you continue to hobby, and I mean years and years, you find you no longer worry about these issues.

 

[Wwanderer]

Originally posted by BigMadM
Once you continue to hobby, and I mean years and years, you find you no longer worry about these issues.

Very zen, BMM...as in the parable about the mountain and so forth. I like it.

-Ww

 

[Just_billys]

Originally posted by BigMadM
Once you continue to hobby, and I mean years and years, you find you no longer worry about these issues.

True. After a while you walk into the bedroom, hand your wife some 20's and tell her to start sucking, then doggie, mish and finish up with some reverse cowgirl. Then head to the computer and log on to UG. You start with, "tonight I saw...................."

 

[Wwanderer]

Originally posted by Rust
I think this is a great discussion, but its in the wrong place. This is much more of a problem with providers than it is with strip clubs.

Fwiiw, this topic has been discussed re strippers and providers in many many threads on UG and elsewhere, but that is no reason not to give it another go around. Why should it be different from all of the other major topics of conversation on PMBs.

-Ww

 

[nychelsea]

Working on developing a ''relationship" with strippers can be a lot of fun, not to mention a challenge (and I like challenges). This clearly does not exits with a provider.

After many attempts at "wooing" strippers, I can truly say that I continue to enjoy it, although the attempts are much less frequent these days. Often it is like making any other sale (with apologies to Willy Loman): the target has to like you, you need to have a credible story, you need to be polite, you need to spend some time with her, perhaps a little flattery (e.g. "I like your earrings"), and most important, you must "ask for the business." Did I forget to mention that spending some $$ is quite important, although it is critical not to overdo it (then you become a target!! - remember, it is the woman who is the target).

It helps to be able to handle no, and continue to be persistent.

I have had fun with this in both Europe and Asia, and sometimes in Canada.

Happy hunting.

 

[nychelsea]

I forgot to add that the Church St. Harmony was the most fertile ground for stripper chasing. Only the pretty ones, however, because a lot of the ladies there were semi pro providers.

Also, Dangerous Curves on 46th (or was it 47th) and Lex. Alas, both are gone.

Chels

 

[everyting210]

a good friend of mine almost got his life ruined by a girl who (at the time) worked at tender trap (i think she might have worked at cafe royale too). Her name was ann marie. If i remember correctly she was a petite, but well developed, lil italian chick. Not to get into the details, but basically imagine that my friend was led around by this girl for about 6 months, as if she was hustling him for more money during a LD. Only instead of money, this girl was harvesting commitment.

her little fetish seemed to be to get a guy to devote his entire being to her, then just stop calling him cold turkey. She clearly got off on the fact that she was breaking his heart. When they broke up my pal had absolutely zero will to live.

the scenario as a whole reminds me of a lap dance gone wrong for some reason so i felt like posting it *frown*

anyways the moral of the story as far as i go is that strippers are going to be better at playing you for a sucker then you are going to be at the reverse. not that there arent a lot of strippers who are wondeerful people because there are plenty of them. just watch the heck out for you wouldn't want to wind up like my pal.

 

[Rust]

Originally posted by Wwanderer
Fwiiw, this topic has been discussed re strippers and providers in many many threads on UG and elsewhere, but that is no reason not to give it another go around. Why should it be different from all of the other major topics of conversation on PMBs.

-Ww

I'm not saying he can't post it here, I'm saying that its a much larger problem when seeing providers.

The interaction between strippers and customers isn't far from the same type of behavior between single men and women at a normal bar. Same types of games are played, both are trying to hook up with the other sex through conversation, flirting. teasing, etc. You're trying to tell me that there is damaging effects from playing games with strippers because you're trying to find a way into their pants and thats not like any of the hundreds of bars and clubs in the city?

 

[BigMadM]

Originally posted by everyting210
a good friend of mine almost got his life ruined by a girl .

I never get this stuff. Ever.
Is there a hobbyist out here that honestly feels a stripper goes to work at night and says to herself, "hmmm, hope tonights the night I meet the perfect man."

A stripper goes to work for one main reason. One reason, to earn as much money possible without having to sell her pussy and trying to retain a bit of dignity and self esteem.
Granted, Im sure many strippers would jump at a chance to leave the club with a man for money.
But if they find that guy that will wine and dine them, they will naturally milk it for all they can, as long as the jerk is kind, gentle, and generous.
Why do men feel these women, who have to give lap dances to feed their children, are going to fall in love with them

I really never get this, ever.

Its tough enough in the real world to meet a woman, and begin a relationship based on love, trust, and understanding, so why would a man try to start a relationship with a girl whos primary objective, while shes working, is to cash out as big as she can.
Shes not shaking her ass on your face for love.
Its for love of money.
And anyone who thinks Im an ass for thinking like this, is really in need of a reality check.

 

[BigMadM]

I have on several occasions been so infatuated with young, good looking latinas, that I have loaned them money, taken care of some of their needs and so forth.
But, I never wanted, or expected any type of emotional ties for this. It was simply something I did because I wanted to, and because I was getting the best sex ever.
I just wanted to post this remark because Im not immune to getting caught up in a whores web of deceit.
There are plenty of whores, or strippers, that are great, lovable women(probably the bulk of them), but when one meets them
while hes slobbering all over her tits, its not the same as asking a coworker from your office, out to dinner. Sorry, not in my eyes.

 

[pswope]

No Black in White in Inter-Gender Relationships

Inter-Gender Relaltionships are complex and defy the easy categorizations attempted here. There are plenty of women in every milieu seeking financial security/stability and a significant number make this the top characteristic. I havve met women,who have psychologically adjusted their physical/sexual attraction criteria in order to address the money issue.

Whether it's a hoochie mama at Ass-Con,an ostensibly educated middle class stripper,or a recent college grad non pro ,who just moved to NY, the $$ can be equally important.

The distinction lies in how they go about finding the Cash Cow. I believe a big part of this distinction lies in the ladies perception of what she is doing to get that money and how it sits with her psycholgically. All of these ladies engage in but for(the money) sex with men and in this sense they are all alike. What they an tolerate mentally is wht distinguishes them. Thus a stripper may need to exert greater control over who she fucks for money than a working girl,but the moment she accepts cash for sex,she is engaging in an act of prostitution. It's just more on her terms. The same can be said for non-pros,who date and fuck guys,essentially for money. It may not be as crude as exchange of money directly for the sexxual congress,but the connection between the 2 is undeniable.

 

[pswope]

Deconstructing JL and strippees

BTW-(IMO)
It's the ostensibly greater discrimination exercised by strippers in choosing,who to fuck for money,that makes the sexual congress more meaningful than the slam dunk of fucking a working girl.

(I wonder when he'll move to non-pros and get around his adultery brightline by giving them a gift certificate for the Strand)

 

[justlooking]

I agree with Rust.

 

[BigMadM]

I dont have really any experience sitting in strip clubs trying to pick up strippers for sex.
My experience lies in the knowledge that I have been given many strippers,(dancers),phone numbers, when money is tight, and they are looking to increase their cash.
So Im not really sure if trying to bed a stripper is the same as a secretary I meet in a bar.
Sure, the secretary may want to get laid in the worst way, but there is a certain percentage of strippers that use their profession to land clients that will pay them for sex.(and how do we know which strippers are these types, because they are masters of deception, and most clients are too full of themselves to even admit that the girls are deceiving them big time.)
By being a stripper, they get to choose beforehand, which client they will or will not let fuck them for money.
Most prostitutes, will take the appt without ever seeing the client, and even if he is a fat, old man, if he tips well, and is basically clean, she will smile the entire time and pretend he is a god.
OTOH, the stripper that knows in advance, shes trolling the bar for a cash client, might look at a younger, handsome, thinner man to spend the night with as long as he can come up with an acceptable amount of cash.
So I really dont think its the same thing when one tries to bed a known stripper/dancer as compared to some dental assistant one might meet in an Atlantic City bar.(only using AC because Ive noticed women away from their friends, and usual surroundings, seem to be a bit more risque,just an opinion Ive always had

 

[BigMadM]

And I do enjoy the company of a stipper.
Ive met a few Long Island girls, and some have been very accomodating, while others considered swallowing an act of the devil.

 

[danger-us]

Originally posted by Rust
The interaction between strippers and customers isn't far from the same type of behavior between single men and women at a normal bar. Same types of games are played, both are trying to hook up with the other sex through conversation, flirting. teasing, etc. You're trying to tell me that there is damaging effects from playing games with strippers because you're trying to find a way into their pants and thats not like any of the hundreds of bars and clubs in the city?

Single men and women at a normal bar, or on the street, health club, whatever— I personally don't think it's healthy to play games. I'm not talking about flirting and teasing. I'm talking about games of deception and dishonesty which are part and parcel of the interaction with strippers.

To meet a woman and develop a truly healthy relationship, you need honesty.
(You play games if you just want to f*ck her an leave her.)

My point is that I believe the male/female interaction outside of clubs should be different from the interaction inside a strip club, if you want a solid, lasting and healthy relationship.